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	<title>Comments on: Skype&#8217;s encryption</title>
	<link>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/</link>
	<description>Let's just see where this is going for now, okay?</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 00:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2</generator>

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		<title>by: arikb</title>
		<link>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-2328</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-2328</guid>
					<description>Hello E

Yes, you need trust in open source as well, and no I haven't personally audited all of the code in every OS that I write. I don't claim that open source is inherantly more secure.

In fact this is not an open-source-is-better post.

All I'm saying is that Skype, not being open-source, cannot claim to have those properties that it has and have them verified. You have to take them on their word.

An open source product can be more easily verified. Not necessarily by me. In closed source it's much harder, although some folks actually did &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.secdev.org/conf/skype_BHEU06.handout.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;reverse engineer Skype and wrote a paper about it&lt;/a&gt;. Moreover, even this paper is only good for the specific Skype version tested, a newer version may be more or less secure and we'll be none the wiser. Obviously it took these guys quite a while to write this paper, and they have to do it again for a newer version. If they had the source they could just diff(1) it. Yes, I'm changing my original claim in this post, it can actually be verified if you're determined enough.

-- Arik</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello E</p>
<p>Yes, you need trust in open source as well, and no I haven&#8217;t personally audited all of the code in every OS that I write. I don&#8217;t claim that open source is inherantly more secure.</p>
<p>In fact this is not an open-source-is-better post.</p>
<p>All I&#8217;m saying is that Skype, not being open-source, cannot claim to have those properties that it has and have them verified. You have to take them on their word.</p>
<p>An open source product can be more easily verified. Not necessarily by me. In closed source it&#8217;s much harder, although some folks actually did <a href="http://www.secdev.org/conf/skype_BHEU06.handout.pdf" rel="nofollow">reverse engineer Skype and wrote a paper about it</a>. Moreover, even this paper is only good for the specific Skype version tested, a newer version may be more or less secure and we&#8217;ll be none the wiser. Obviously it took these guys quite a while to write this paper, and they have to do it again for a newer version. If they had the source they could just diff(1) it. Yes, I&#8217;m changing my original claim in this post, it can actually be verified if you&#8217;re determined enough.</p>
<p>&#8211; Arik
</p>
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		<title>by: E. Leibovich</title>
		<link>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-2323</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-2323</guid>
					<description>But don't you need trust in opensource code as well? I mean, you're probably using linux, and I don't think you've audited all the code there to make sure there are no security vulnerabilities. In fact when some researchers did that for the random numbers, they discovered that the code didn't provide much help...&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.linuxelectrons.com/article.php/20060501121301243&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This refers you to the article reporting of researchers&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But don&#8217;t you need trust in opensource code as well? I mean, you&#8217;re probably using linux, and I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;ve audited all the code there to make sure there are no security vulnerabilities. In fact when some researchers did that for the random numbers, they discovered that the code didn&#8217;t provide much help&#8230;<a href="http://www.linuxelectrons.com/article.php/20060501121301243" rel="nofollow">This refers you to the article reporting of researchers</a>
</p>
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		<title>by: arikb</title>
		<link>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-535</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Dec 2005 23:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-535</guid>
					<description>Hey Nir

I'd love to hook up to your asterisk. I'm calling your cell.

However, not everyone have a friend with an Asterix around :-)

-- Arik</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Nir</p>
<p>I&#8217;d love to hook up to your asterisk. I&#8217;m calling your cell.</p>
<p>However, not everyone have a friend with an Asterix around :-)</p>
<p>&#8211; Arik
</p>
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		<title>by: Nir Simionovich</title>
		<link>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-534</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Dec 2005 22:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-534</guid>
					<description>Hey Arik,

  Or you can just give me a call and I'll hook up your X-Lite/X-Pro to my Asterisk and let you 
pass calls. I have a better idea, if you want encryption, install an Asterisk box at your end, 
we'll RSA and everything via IAX back to my box and then I'll let you make the calls. How about
that?

You know the number dude, just use it ...

Nir Simionovich
http://www.net-gurus.net</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Arik,</p>
<p>  Or you can just give me a call and I&#8217;ll hook up your X-Lite/X-Pro to my Asterisk and let you<br />
pass calls. I have a better idea, if you want encryption, install an Asterisk box at your end,<br />
we&#8217;ll RSA and everything via IAX back to my box and then I&#8217;ll let you make the calls. How about<br />
that?</p>
<p>You know the number dude, just use it &#8230;</p>
<p>Nir Simionovich<br />
<a href='http://www.net-gurus.net' rel='nofollow'>http://www.net-gurus.net</a>
</p>
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		<title>by: arikb</title>
		<link>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-447</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-447</guid>
					<description>Actually, it's easier than you think. There are companies that supply this service for you, you just need to sign up with one. A nice list exists in:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/VOIP+Service+Providers+B2B&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/VOIP+Service+Providers+B2B&lt;/a&gt;

Some examples:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.terravon.com/termination.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.terravon.com/termination.html&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.terravon.com/asterisk.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.terravon.com/asterisk.html&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, it&#8217;s easier than you think. There are companies that supply this service for you, you just need to sign up with one. A nice list exists in:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/VOIP+Service+Providers+B2B" rel="nofollow"><a href='http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/VOIP+Service+Providers+B2B' rel='nofollow'>http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/VOIP+Service+Providers+B2B</a></a></p>
<p>Some examples:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.terravon.com/termination.html" rel="nofollow"><a href='http://www.terravon.com/termination.html' rel='nofollow'>http://www.terravon.com/termination.html</a></a><br />
<a href="http://www.terravon.com/asterisk.html" rel="nofollow"><a href='http://www.terravon.com/asterisk.html' rel='nofollow'>http://www.terravon.com/asterisk.html</a></a>
</p>
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		<title>by: Noam</title>
		<link>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-446</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2005 05:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-446</guid>
					<description>What about the VOIP &amp;#62; Landline infrastructure that they have all over the world to deal with  a lot of SkypeOut traffic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about the VOIP &gt; Landline infrastructure that they have all over the world to deal with  a lot of SkypeOut traffic.
</p>
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		<title>by: arikb</title>
		<link>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-434</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Nov 2005 09:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-434</guid>
					<description>I agree, except for the part of the infrastructure: Skype has a fairly small infrastructure. They rely on the  P2P network itself to provide the PC-PC calls, they have zero investment in infrastracture on that part. Their only infrastructure is their registration server (bah) and their SkypeOut / SkypeIn / Voicemail deals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, except for the part of the infrastructure: Skype has a fairly small infrastructure. They rely on the  P2P network itself to provide the PC-PC calls, they have zero investment in infrastracture on that part. Their only infrastructure is their registration server (bah) and their SkypeOut / SkypeIn / Voicemail deals.
</p>
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		<title>by: Noam</title>
		<link>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-432</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Nov 2005 19:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-432</guid>
					<description>That is a fairly small concern. 

First, there is a difference between revealing code and putting it under the GPL license. Just revealing your code does not grant anyone the right to use it for their own commercial purposes. You can argue that someone can use their code without them being able to prove it.
This brings me to the second point:

The source code is a very small piece of what is needed to compete with Skype.
The infrastructure and brand are far harder to establish than the sorce code.
Not to mention opening up your source code strengthens your brand, and if someone
steals it, they can't open it up as well. 

There is a lot of effort involved in &quot;stealing code&quot;. You have to learn how it works, change it sufficiently so that it does not resemble the original software, and they you have to other keep maitaining it yourself to stay competitive or to steal every update and modify it to your interface. You may end up spending more time/money than you would writing it yourself or outsourcing to India. When you want to compete with an existing product with the clone strategy (Same product, lower price) - outsourcing is a lot more effective because you don't need 50 product and project managers overseeing the operation. You just hire a software firm in India, tell them to develop a &quot;Skype&quot; clone, send a wire transfer for $50K and wait (Ok, so it's not that easy, but point made).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is a fairly small concern. </p>
<p>First, there is a difference between revealing code and putting it under the GPL license. Just revealing your code does not grant anyone the right to use it for their own commercial purposes. You can argue that someone can use their code without them being able to prove it.<br />
This brings me to the second point:</p>
<p>The source code is a very small piece of what is needed to compete with Skype.<br />
The infrastructure and brand are far harder to establish than the sorce code.<br />
Not to mention opening up your source code strengthens your brand, and if someone<br />
steals it, they can&#8217;t open it up as well. </p>
<p>There is a lot of effort involved in &#8220;stealing code&#8221;. You have to learn how it works, change it sufficiently so that it does not resemble the original software, and they you have to other keep maitaining it yourself to stay competitive or to steal every update and modify it to your interface. You may end up spending more time/money than you would writing it yourself or outsourcing to India. When you want to compete with an existing product with the clone strategy (Same product, lower price) - outsourcing is a lot more effective because you don&#8217;t need 50 product and project managers overseeing the operation. You just hire a software firm in India, tell them to develop a &#8220;Skype&#8221; clone, send a wire transfer for $50K and wait (Ok, so it&#8217;s not that easy, but point made).
</p>
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		<title>by: arikb</title>
		<link>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-427</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 17:15:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-427</guid>
					<description>Well, if they open their code, a competitor can use it to build an alternative Skype, and serve phone calls for lower rates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, if they open their code, a competitor can use it to build an alternative Skype, and serve phone calls for lower rates.
</p>
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		<title>by: Noam</title>
		<link>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-426</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 17:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://arik.baratz.org/wordpress/2005-10-11/skypes-encryption/#comment-426</guid>
					<description>Good post. I wonder what I'd do in their place.

I actually can't think of very good reasons not to open their code.
People place so much importance in one's source code as Intellectual property,
when in fact there is far more important Intellectual property to protect.

The PR advantages of opening your code are huge, not to mention you end up with
a better product.

Still, it's a tough call. You never know what can happen when you take this leap of faith</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post. I wonder what I&#8217;d do in their place.</p>
<p>I actually can&#8217;t think of very good reasons not to open their code.<br />
People place so much importance in one&#8217;s source code as Intellectual property,<br />
when in fact there is far more important Intellectual property to protect.</p>
<p>The PR advantages of opening your code are huge, not to mention you end up with<br />
a better product.</p>
<p>Still, it&#8217;s a tough call. You never know what can happen when you take this leap of faith
</p>
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